ANC 2C endorses Single Sale Moratorium exemption

In addition to the calamity surrounding voting on a chairperson, ANC 2C also voted to endorse a Single Sale Moratorium exemption to Good Libations (1201 5th St NW). The ANC 2C voted 4-0 to endorse the exemption using the same voluntary agreement based condition drafted by the MVSNA.

DNA president Miles Groves was in attendance and outlined his objections to the endorsement. Good Libations falls just 1/10 of a mile outside of the DNA boundaries. The downtown neighborhood has had an ongoing problem with public drinking and loitering.

A corner by corner ban is not a sufficient approach. Vagrants who loiter around all day have all the time in the world to walk the extra 3 blocks to get their single beer. A 555 Mass resident has already witnessed former Chinatown Market (6th & H) single buyers going to Subway Liquors II (5th & K) were the singles ban is not yet underway.

Currently, the Chinatown Market single serve moratorium has gone into effect while the Subway Liquor moratorium is still in process. The impact of this is that there has been a significant increase in public drinking on our block in the last couple of weeks. It is hard for MPD to enforce because the guys keep their drinks in their jackets.

Last Saturday morning, I watched a procession of guys who usually drink at the Building Museum come into our part of the neighborhood to buy their alcohol. Many tried to stay and loiter on our building (they were run off). Others bought at Subway and returned to 5th and G NW. That being said, our neighbors in ANC2C are trying to get a single serve exemption a few blocks to the north of us. If this happens, the Subway moratorium will be undermined as these guys will still have a place nearby to buy their singles.

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  1. 1

    IMGoph says

    this is some pretty one sided story telling here. i was at that meeting last night, and one of the key things you’re missing is that good libations doesn’t stock the kind of singles that your average miscreant is looking to buy.

    this guy doesn’t have steel reserve and bud ice tallboys in stock. he has pricier belgians and stuff like that.

    fact is, he said he gets cursed out by riff-raff who are angry that he doesn’t carry what they’re looking for.

    the ANC did right by supporting an exemption for this store.

  2. 2

    fourthandeye says

    I’ve done six posts on single serves the last 3 weeks covering it from different angles. I’ve also sat down in a small 5-on-1 setting with the Ron for 40 minutes. Be critical if you want, I’m at peace with how I’m covering the Single Sales issue.

  3. 3

    IMGoph says

    i’m not criticizing you personally. i love your coverage. i just felt that, if someone is reading the post by itself (as i am from my RSS reader right now), they might get the feeling that, since some people have walked from chinatown to subway liquors to buy singles, they’ll be able to do that just as easily with good libations, when that just isn’t the case.

  4. 4

    Cozmot says

    I agree with fourthandeye. Reading his thorough coverage in past postings, there is no justification for granting exemptions to anyone. Mt. Pleasant has successfully had a single-sales moratorium since 2000, with no exemptions. It’s worked and nobody’s business has suffered.

    Good Libations has no need for an exemption, and the community should not have to “trust” them not to cater to these drunks. If Good Libations is so “upscale,” then their customers should be able to afford more than one can or bottle of something.

    ANC 2C and the MVSNA have failed the community in supporting the exemption. I’m don’t live within the boundaries of either (I’m in the DNA boundaries), so have no recourse there, but I will never patronize Good Libations for seeking this exemption.

  5. 5

    Mr. Q says

    t would be different if the ‘hood didn’t have a problem with public drunkenness and public urination, but we all know it does…

    Why not see what impact the ban has before undermining it right from the start?

    If Good Libations could prove the single sales ban was hurting its business over the course of the first six months or so, then take a legitimate business case to the ANC and let them weigh in…

    This anecdotal “they don’t sell the stuff that the public urinators want” and “trust us, we’re good neighbors” stuff is irrelevant…

    The single-sales ban should have been ALL INCLUSIVE…at least for a year to judge its impact…

  6. 6

    si says

    fourthandeye you have excellent coverage of the single sales issue but more importantly you came to the MVSNA meeting and voted.

  7. 7

    fourthandeye says

    @IMGoph – I believe it’s true Ron does not sell Steel Reserve or Icehouse tall boys. However I’m not comfortable with the characterization that he just sells “Belgians” because that’s not accurate.

    Besides brands are not allowed in the ABRA voluntary agreements. Exemption decisions based on implicit criteria that cannot be in an agreement is a bit dubious IMO. We’ve talked about that on the blog in past coverage and likely will again after I attend the ANC 6C meeting next week.

  8. 8

    IMGoph says

    duly noted then.

    i guess, when i get down to it, i feel like i’m not a supporter of the singles bans, for multiple reasons, but i realize that puts me in the minority when it comes to this topic in the city, so i can accept that.

    i’ve always just felt that we need to find ways to incentivize things so that store owners find that they will make more money selling quality products instead of junk. as neighborhoods clean up, stores do to, though there is somewhat of a chicken-and-egg dynamic at play there. i certainly see where singles bans can be a catalyst for that dynamic.

  9. 9

    Anonymous says

    I watched a drunk guy this morning at 8 a.m. (just outside my condo window on 5th street) drop his pants so he could urinate on the sidewalk. It took him about 15 minutes to figure out how to get his pants refastened. We have a problem here and this is a border issue. I believe that the ANC6C and the DNA should be given equal weight at ABRA since it impacts folks south of New York in the Triangle. I am going to ask my condo board to request as much from ABRA and our Council Member. Unless of course, the Square would like to keep all the dudes up there. You can have them.

  10. 10

    TJM says

    There are two very distinct sides here, but I think Si captures it. If you don’t like what’s happening, go to the meetings and vote, vote for ANC reps, and talk to your City Council reps.

    The law, as passed by the City Council allows for exemptions. If you don’t like that, work with your council member to change that law.

    Many in the Triangle weren’t happy with the MVSNA vote to support the exemption, but almost no one voted against it. I guess its easier to complain on a blog than to attend the meeting and take part in the debate.

    ANC 2C covers part of the downtown area. If those people had voted for the ANC 2C candidate that lives in that area, perhaps they would have been able to vote out Doris Brooks, who completely ignores the downtown area. As of Wednesday night you could have had a rep giving voice to the downtown issues.

    Kudos to forthandeye for reporting on this issue, doing independent research, attending the meetings, and voting. If more of the complainers were like him, perhaps the exemption wouldn’t have been passed.

  11. 11

    Anonymous says

    We don’t live in ANC2C — the Triangle is in ANC6C. Our neighborhood association is the DNA and they spoke up against it. So TJM, we DO attend OUR neighborhood meetings and we do go to OUR ANC6C meetings. I should not have to attend someone else’s neighborhood meeting (i.e. MVSNA). The DNA should have been heard. And ABRA needs to listen to ANC6C. Do you think anyone would listen to me since I don’t live in the SQUARE and don’t vote in ANC2C?

  12. 12

    fourthandeye says

    @IMGoph – Read my posting on the Single ban in Mount Pleasant that has been in effect since 2000. The singles sales ban was such a catalyst.

  13. 13

    IMGoph says

    fourthandeye: i’ve read your posts on the moratorium (i read all your posts!). i guess i just prefer to have these things dealt with on a more individual basis. i’m glad that mt. p’s ban works for them, but i feel like it’s a different neighborhood, with different issues. everything’s unique.

    again, i’m not trying to rag on you here, i just disagree.

  14. 14

    Anonymous says

    According to TJM those who show up to a MVSNA Holiday social to vote are ‘debaters’ and everyone else who discusses the issues are ‘complainers’. Are Brian and Cary complainers when they disagree with Jack Evans or the Mayor’s office on their blogs?

  15. 15

    fourthandeye says

    Regardless of whether TJM or others characterize this blog as “complaining” the coverage of the Moratorium related news and issues will continue.

    When the time comes for Triangle residents to advocate against exemptions in our ANC 6C boundaries there will be ample discussion for them to refer to. Contrast this with how MVSNA endorsed an exemption for Modern Liquors on 11/18 six days before ABRA even sent them the full set of regulations on 11/24(Single Sale Beers, see 13th comment down).

    Miles Groves of the DNA told me that at the recent ANC 2C meeting he asked “that they defer any vote and work together with ANC6C” rather than mandating they deny the exemption. But all the leadership North of NY seems to be in a big hurry.

  16. 16

    fourthandeye says

    Another thing I will add is that ANC 2C voted on Good Libations without even including it on the agenda. 555 Mass and Madrigal wouldn't have attended anyway as we both had conflicts with our January condo owners meetings and ANC 2C is not our ANC.

    But for the set of people who say "you gotta show up & vote" it'd be nice if agendas came out more than 3-4 days in advance and actually fully disclosed the topics being voted on.

  17. 17

    IMGoph says

    fourthandeye: of course, the dysfunction of ANC2C is legendary. that agenda was tossed at the beginning of the meeting in favor of a different agenda. had things been run more smoothly, i suppose the vote may not have even come up.

    consider yourself blessed that you only have to deal with your neighboring ANC minimally, i suppose.

  18. 18

    fourthandeye says

    @IMGoph – can you send me your email. Not about this stuff. Just for NoDrillingatMcMillan related venting…

  19. 19

    RobA says

    I’d like to invite everyone posting here (or just reading) to the ANC 6C meeting next week where the topic of single sales will be discussed by the Commissioners. ANC 2C residents (including MVSNA members) are welcome to attend as well to have your voice heard on this topic. (since your ANC borders up against ANC 6C). It should be an interesting discussion and you will get to see how the ANC 6C works.

    The ANC 6C meeting will be held on Wednesday, January 14 at 7:00 p.m. at the Heritage Foundation located at 214 Massachusetts Ave NE.

  20. 20

    Anonymous says

    3 guys with Silver Bullets drinking on the sidewalk outside of Subway Liquor Friday evening. We’re an open air bar over here now that Chinatown Liquor doesn’t sell. I wonder if we can get them to move up to Good Libations and stay there when the Subway moratorium starts.

  21. 21

    Anonymous says

    Hello to all this is Ron, the owner of Good Libations,

    I’ve been invited to attend your 6C meeting which I will. I hope many will turn out. I don’t want our society to become nothing more than people sitting at the computers and venting. We loose our humanity that way.

    I’m not going to get into a back and fourth spat on a blog. I do want to list some points that we can discuss at the meeting.

    Why do you think the MVSNA and the ANC2C voted for the exemption?
    Are they not good stewards of the neighborhood?

    What is the real problem, singles or the types of singles?
    Anon 2231… 3 guys with Silver Bullets drinking on the sidewalk outside of Subway Liquor Friday evening.
    Good Libations will not sell that type of beer. Nor does Whole Foods or Yes Organic Market, but where is the uproar about them and do you continue to shop at these establishments?
    (Please don’t say they don’t concern you because they’re not in your neighborhood)

    Last, I’m not trying to be an exclusive store, catering to one type of customer. I want to sell 22oz of Guinness next to 22oz of Arrogant Bastard

    I don’t believe in a Doomsday scenario… Bann all singles. There should be room for compromised. Also put the earnest back on the store owner.

    Please click on these links. I hope this shows what type of store I’m trying to grow.

  22. 22

    fourthandeye says

    I don’t believe brands is the end all be all in this equation. It creates new landmines. I’ll explain more in a future post on Sun or Mon.

    However if Ron does want to appeal to the community to consider brands he should come forth with a list of ALL brands and sizes of singles he will sell. Not just mention the 3 or 4 trendiest. I’ve emailed him this request for full disclosure. If he supplies the list it I will share it.

  23. 25

    RobA says

    It was pointed out to me that the article reads as if I were pro-exemption. That is far from the truth. It seems that the author took selective bits and pieces from the interview to give the story a pro-exemption, pro-small business slant. I was one of the few who voted against the Good Libations exemption at the MVSNA meeting and my "objective" comment was in regard to using the same set of rules and standards against other businesses as they did Good Libations. Since you can't discriminate on the types/brands of beer sold, then the same standards that applied to Good Libations to give them their exemption have to also be applied to B&M to grant their exemption request by the neighborhood association.